Talk:House Boraga
With four sources of income (Sand, Salt, Gems and Prisoners), I think the House is doing a bit too much as a concept and therefore loosing some of its focus in the process (just my two cents, of course, no offense intended). Would you consider dropping the "gem" aspect? The other three have sort of a synergy-thing going and the House doesn't seem to loose anything by dropping the odd man out... or does it? Binder Fred 01:25, August 17, 2010 (UTC) I have no problem with removing the gems piece. I could definitely see them as controlling surface-mining operations instead. InVinoVeritas 02:57, August 20, 2010 (UTC) /* House Boraga */ Gems are mined just like sand and salt are mined/quarried, I think it fits in quite well with the Miners and Quarriers Guild Adios With that last one, Adieu, TT is outta here! Jake (holyman) talked me into sticking around, but if you'd rather, I can take my ideas elsewhere if none of you like anything I say. TT, it's just the nature of the beast. If people like what another person has written, people tend to be silent. If not, they tend to speak up. It ends up making it look like no one likes your ideas--but it's not what actually is going on. Writing something like this, especially in wiki format, will expose you to people who want to see something different and have the power to change it. Whatever, you've got that power, too. Just defend your work, be flexible when you like another person's ideas, and you'll end up okay. Stick around. Your work has been great at fleshing out everything so far. InVinoVeritas 11:32, August 19, 2010 (UTC) House Boraga You're lumping together bulk gathering of loose material on the surface (beach sand and, I'm guessing, salt from the current salt plain (as opposed to the underground mining of long ago salt plains, which is a lot more expensive)) with underground mining of fragile items (gems). The two have really very little in common, both in terms of the infrastructure and the skills needed... Even if they had, does House Boraga have to be involved in EVERYTHING the Miners and Quarriers guild mines and quarries...? Speaking of, how *does* the guild feel about prisoners taking their jobs? Binder Fred 20:00, August 18, 2010 (UTC) First, who said salt, sand and gems was all the miners & quarriers dig for? Second, a lot of mining companies do both strip mining and tunneling, depends on what you're after and where its at. Its called diversification, not putting all of your eggs in one basket. Digging is digging, just in one the tunnels require suring up. The lumber concessions were never mentioned, maybe a competitor house is gouging them for timber. I didn't come up with anything here, I just made a few suggestions. The miners would be skilled workers and wouldn't look kindly on free labor replacing them, but they could be easily used in the quarries. InVinoVeritas. (Vino, please sign your bits and make sure they are seperate from what comes before. Else it becomes difficult to know who said what, the basis of conversation). (Hey, don't look at me, I didn't write that above.InVinoVeritas 02:38, August 20, 2010 (UTC)) I'm a geologist, so I have to take exception to "digging is digging". Trust me, it's not. Even underground mining of diamonds and, say, base metals is widely different. Here we are not comparing surface vs underground mining, but a sand quarry (moving tons of loose material from one place to another) with a precious substance mine (breaking hard, cohesive material and extracting very low tonnage (we're talking pounds of production), fragile items from it via careful crushing and sorting, complicated by the fact that it's underground) : it's an entirely different business. Now I agree that it *is* possible that House Boraga decided to enter into said new business. My comment was purely on an OOC basis : "diversification", while it may or may not make economic sense, muddles the impact of the image you're trying to create with your House (unless "diversification" *is* one of the themes you're trying to convey, but that doesn't seem to be the case here). I'm seeing Vast Above-ground Quarries, melded with Prison-Keepers to form Forced Labor. That's a single, cohesive whole. It works very well together. Why add "oh and by the way they're also involved in gems, fisheries and rare wines"? If the forced labor is only happening in the quarries, as you suggest above, then the gem mining is even more dissociated from your House's central themes. Let another House take over that bit of it. Design it yourself if you want to, make is a sister/allied/sub House to House Boraga even, but take the underground, hard-rock mining part out of it please. I am, by the way, still not entirely sure what it is you find so appealing about gem-mining in House Boraga: What does it add, to the concept and/or to roleplaying opportunities? What do you loose by removing it? I hesitate to mention this, as I feel it will *still* muddle the impact of the central themes, but there is such a thing as placer deposits you know, perticularly for diamonds. That would sort of fit with the Vast Above-ground Quarries theme... 17:44, August 19, 2010 (UTC) Here's the history of the article: I started House Boraga, and said that they have gem and quartz mines, and might just be using prisoner labor to mine the tunnels. With deep-tunnel style operations, I figured a gate to Irthos would be good. Then, someone else (TiggerTom?) added sand and salt, because I mentioned the quartz for glass. I agree that this is becoming too many things, and cutting back would be useful. We could return to the deep-tunnel mining, but now I think they surface-mining for sand and salt might be the stuff to keep. But if we do this, I don't want House Boraga's gate leading to Irthos anymore, but to some desert wasteland with sand dunes and salt pans, kind of like the Atacama. As for what the miners think... part of the twist is that there aren't really that many low-skill miners anymore. Low-skill workers never really formed guilds, anyway. Higher-skill mining engineer types have nothing to fear from slave--er, I mean prison--labor, and neither do Miner's Guildsmen who get jobs as slave drivers--drat, I mean prison guards. Certainly controlling a gate to a desert wasteland would make the house a good candidate for a prison, don't you think? InVinoVeritas 02:57, August 20, 2010 (UTC) Irthos Gate Does a city built on islands for its defensive value have a need (or more importantly, capability) to build walls and gates? -GlassEye The "Gate" is the teleporting gate that takes people to the nation of Irthos, not a gate in a wall... at least, that's my understanding. InVinoVeritas 02:41, August 20, 2010 (UTC) I see. Clearly, I didn't before, lol. I like your revised gate idea (to the desert) better than the idea of a gate to Irthos. And just because I didn't say it before: I like the Boraga. GlassEye67 04:24, August 20, 2010 (UTC) Desert: I made an edit changing the Athrak Desert (wherever that might be/have been) to the Zeire Desert so that there would be a link to a specific area and help with an adventure proposal. I don't think the Athrak Desert or Athrak Gate have been mentioned anywhere before but I could be wrong, of course. Keepers of Penitence: How does this work with the Tower of Chains idea that has been briefly mentioned in various threads? Perhaps instead of an official thing House Boraga has an under the table agreement with a bureaucrat to acquire prisoners for their mine works? GlassEye67 07:20, November 16, 2011 (UTC)